Cr Doug Thompson's mysterious abacus
Fremantle market business owners have often commented that they feel that they have been thrown to the dogs by Fremantle Council. That, and a whole lot more, but I’ll use this as the milder version of the general dismay and overall frustration and disappointment repeatedly expressed.
To hear themselves referred to as ‘dislodged’ or their diabolical treatment described as ‘unintentional consequences’ is sickening and abhorrent. How can they claim the consequences were unintentional when they were made aware of them loudly and publicly right from the beginning?
When the swearing, anger, outrage and confusion subside there are always the questions: why, what’s going on? How did it happen? What don’t they get….?
Of course, there are conspiracy theories; who is in bed with…? Are they incompetent, lazy or ignorant? Is it personal? Was it deliberate?
Well, I don’t have any concrete answers myself, but like many others, I have held the belief that at some level they all know they did the wrong thing, and providing they can find a solution which saves them publicly admitting fault or being held accountable or liable they would, at the very least, try to band aid what they could.
Last months council meeting ended any delusions we might have entertained; the meetings, reports, mediation, blah, blah and blah…
I have been contacted by people who were appalled at Robert Fittock’s comment, and one person said:
…Cr Fittock of course had his turn. What a nasty piece of work he is. He has obviously forgotten he was elected to assist the people of the community, instead he relishes in demeaning and insulting the disenfranchised stallholders. He stated - the disenfranchised stallholders made their bed! I can’t remember if he actually said 'they deserve what they get, but he certainly inferred it. He was definitely out of line and the mayor should have told him to pull his head in.
However, the real knife in the heart came from Doug Thompson. Crowing like a Cock in a hen house, he delivered his facts about the 43 ‘dislodged’ businesses:
4 left before negotiations
16 Sold their business at an average $59,000.00
3 Retired
5 signed a new lease
1 on a new agreement
6 were month by month due to future relocation
7 were casual and
1 was terminated
Jamie Murdoch’s outrageous claims that the average takings per stall was $10,000 per week-end, 40,000 customers each week spend around $35 per head, average rent at $300 per week and that only one person has been evicted. Council has accepted all of this as fact and we have not only disputed this but given truer figures. Why won’t council do the numbers themselves?
The stallholders association not only counted the 43 but publicly read them all out by name. They didn’t even include the employees in that count and as that was a few months ago we could now add more names and numbers.
None of our 43 people had signed any new lease so please explain how 12 of your ‘facts’ are classified as having left the market whilst at the same time signed onto new agreements?
If Thompson asserts that he has factual knowledge of 16 people selling at an average of $59,000 then I ask him publicly to supply us with the names of those people. Also, was this ‘one termination’ (eviction) Steve, Richard, Colin or Ed?
After two public rallies; one on council steps, dozens of letters and emails from stallholders, council meetings overflowing with angry stallholders, countless media articles and the obvious vacant spaces at Fremantle markets, I can not accept Cr Thompson is that ignorant - it appears to be malicious or deliberately incompetent.
Mayor Pettitt, Cr’s Fittock and Thompson would serve the people of Freo more effectively if they were to visit the office of Adele Carles and do a thorough tally of the financial losses reported to her office and gain some insight into the trauma and heartache of their actions rather than crow out Murdoch cronyism.
Or, for that matter - read through their own transcripts!
Cr Fittock was honest enough to admit that he didnt read through all that mail but this seems to suggest that Doug Thompson hasn't seen, heard or known anything and yet he claims to understand everything.
For the latest post:
http://sonyagreen.blogspot.com
Labels: brad pettitt, cr doug thompson, Cr Robert Fittock, fremantle council, sonya greens blog
posted by Editor at 5:41 PM
26 Comments:
I dont get it. How can 16 people have sold their business at an average of $59,000 when it clearly stated on the Markets website recently that "finally we have secured prime locations within the market and you no longer have to buy a business anymore". What a blunder. Let's assume that Anne wrote that and that J & J took it down asap before too many people saw it. Oh well boys lots did and it's a clear reflection on what you have set out to acheive. Who are these 16 people and why are people walking away from their stores without a cracker when there is such great money on offer? Who would pay $59,000 for a store when there are plenty of emply ones you cant fill? The list of questions just gets bigger and bigger but let's face it, neither FMPL or the Fremantle City Council will ever address these issues as the answers are damning. It's a shame Blind Freddy's not on the council because at least he could see what's going on!
In the original presentation Jamie was asked what was going to happen to the stalls out the back when the redevelopment commenced. I thought it disturbing that Jamie said that most of them were casuals. No one challenged that. It seemed to me at the time that the implication was they are 'only' casuals or they are 'disposable stalls'. No one pointed out that many casual stalls had been operating for more than a decade.
Doug Thompson’s comment of, ‘7 were casual’ seems to imply he is of the same opinion – nothing more than blow in's – more collateral damage.
I will cover the sale of Anne Meyer’s coffee shop later and in more detail. I realise everyone is incensed and wanting answers but for now let's just ask why this casual trader is able to sell a stall that she doesn’t even occupy.
How can a casual stall sell when so 'many paid in full' permanents have been snookered?
How can the previous occupants be ‘relocated’ prior to Christmas, lose their right to sell and ultimately walk away with nothing and yet the daughter can not only be given the space free of charge but can actually on-sell it without ever moving into it?
I will be writing to Mr Thompson next week and asking him to name the people he so factually referred to and, expecting no reply, I would suggest that 43 ‘dislodged’ people might like to show up at next months meeting to ask on record for those facts.
“4 left before negotiations” because there was nothing to negotiate. The rent hikes wiped them out and they simply walked away.
“5 signed a new lease, 1 on a new agreement, 6 were month by month due to future relocation” Well, that doesn’t even make sense. The 43 people counted were people who had left the market after the price hikes were announced. Who or even how do people sign leases after they have gone?
Cr Thompson has accounted for 43 people so obviously no-one has been dislodged at all. So what’s all the fuss about? The people who wrote to council must have been lying. The people who spoke at the rally must have been lying. The recent photographs and stories in the Herald must have been phantoms. The people writing to this blog, the council admin and the papers must all be lying. The vacant stalls at the market must be mirages.
Or, Doug Thompson is full of … and the new Mayor must be supportive of his views as implied by his silence.
Doug Thompson has been conspicuous by his lack of public comment over the market issue so it has come as a surprise that he would chose to speak up now in defence of the Murdoch's. He obviously must have checked his facts about the "dislodged" stallholders as any councillor worth their salt would. We have no reason to doubt the validity of his claims which must mean all the stallholders who have been belly aching and bitchin' to the Herald are disillusioned and were really "dislodged" for a reason they were unaware of. I often wondered where that $59000 in my bank account came from..thanks Mr. Thompson for clearing that up. I'm obviously one of the average stallholders who sold for that average price...
Now did you get those figures from the very average Mr. Jamie who has a marvellous way with numbers...
I'd take it that Mr. Thompson has verified these figures before extolling their credibility to the public and other councillors. I wonder how many of the 43 poor "dislodged" souls he spoke to to satisfy himself that they were correct.
I dont understand why no other councillor questioned or disputed his facts. They have all read their mail havent they? Read the papers, listen to radio and watched TV? Hasnt Brad mediated all of this? I can only assume that they were left speechless from shock and horror.
And, Mr Fittocks comment about making their bed...Lucky for them as they all climbed in together.
The Fremantle City Councillors who claim to know facts about the "sale" of any stall since this whole mess began must be getting their facts from thin air! It is an absolute outrage that the Fremantle Markets have been allowed to fall into the hands of such disreputable landlords and that the livelihoods and investments of so many have simply gone up-in-smoke. My family has been associated with Market Stalls for many, many, many years and they've never once made more than "just enough to get by on" from those stalls. My mother ran one of the biggest, best known, and most successful stalls at the Subiaco Markets until her death. Never in her life-time operating that stall did she take more than $3,000 on a weekend - and that was at the height of Xmas shopping! It is a sad indictment of our society that sites like the Fremantle Markets and others are vanishing off the Tourist Guides because of the greed of a few and the ignorance of many! In all the years my family was associated with market stalls, they've never lost money on the "sale" of their stall - that is, of course, until now. There is no selling a market stall at Fremantle Markets no matter how great your business, locations within the Market or how much it cost you to acquire that site/business. No one in their right mind would pay one cent for a market stall that has no tenure as to location and fewer customers by the week!
A 'more to the point figure' would be "How many of the 43 people, whether, before negotiations, or managed to sell, or on a new agreement, or on a month by month, or were casual, or walked-away, got out because the rent was made too high for the amount of money taken on a weekend?"
The truth is the majority of the 43stalls were either forced out because the rents were too high, or the agreements being offered were unsuitable.
It is true a few big businesses may take a lot of money, but the majority are small businesses, sometimes not even taking $2,000 per weekend.
It is true that the market Landlord's have taken back a large number of the 'walk-away' stalls to give away freely to the next lucky recipient of a free stall.
In the past, not many shops came up for sale in a year. These types of numbers were unheard of!
A word of caution to Brad Pettit, Doug Thompson and Robert Fittock. I too, in the past, have believed the words of the Murdoch brothers. For example - 5th December 2005 – “We (Murdoch brothers) believe our business model in trying to keep the Fremantle Markets a relatively low cost environment for small operators like you (me) is the key to long term viability of the business. Integral to this business model is long term tenure (for all of us)”. Also in the same letter to stallholders detailing “…..the business plan being adopted by the City of Fremantle…” - “Certainty and continuity for stallholders”; (the honey to the bear). With all the above promised by the Murdoch brothers, how could long term stallholders like me resist these assurances? And like you Brad, Doug and Robert, I rallied to support them, and look what happened to me – shafted – evicted from my stall. Yes, there are more than one of us!!!. The stall and goodwill I purchased for a lot of money and the goodwill I had built upon over my years of tenure –gone. Obviously there was no need for my support anymore. So beware, a leopard does not change its spots; amongst nature it’s quite normal to eat the young (supporters in this case). Beware, one day you too will be referred to as “Yesterday's men”.
All of this aside just take a walk through the markets and ask yourself
"Is it better now than what it was?
Is it improving or getting worse?
Has it lost its vibrancy? Will it draw you back again? Are the stallholders happy?Is this a market Fremantle could be proud of?"
As a stallholder or should i say tenant, that is what we are referred to these days,of a larger business, we are lucky to collect $5000 a weekend, and pay much, much, much more than $300 a day rent. Please ask these people where their figures come from.
sorry i meant much, much, more than $300 a WEEKEND, not DAY. sorry again for the misinformation
Everthing the Stallholders Association said the Murdoch brothers would do - they have done. Everthing the Stallholders Association said would happen - has happened. And all the while the Murdoch brothers labelled the members of the Association as trouble makers. Well the proof is in the pudding - the stallholders were screwwed.
From observation the market stalls weekend takings are upwards to $2000 gross for the smaller stalls, to $5-6000 for the bigger stalls. Expenses (rent and costs) have to come out of this.
This would render a lot of the market stalls eligible for part Commonwealth assistance.
I don't think Mayor Pettitt would like any more publicity about being responsible for any more unemployment figures in Fremantle. See Gazette article 14.4.10. "Mackenzie challenges Fremantle's reported jobless figures." Done by South West Local Authorities using ABS figures to claim Fremantle's unemployment figures are twice the metropolitan average, and disputed by Mayor Pettitt and Graeme Mackenzie.
Isn't it crazy that Doug Thompson is quoting and accepts figures from a guy who stated that the Farmer's Market was "a successful trial"! How many times do you need to be caught out to lose credibility or to have people questions your "facts"??
I thought the "successful" Farmers Market was re-launching in March of this year. No takers hey! Whatever happened to the new cutting edge businesses they were atracting? Where is the weekly you tube video (what a genius idea)? Twitter (another cracking idea)? Are the markets open at 8,9 or 10 this week? Do we close at 5,6,8 or 9? (better do another "customer survey") These amateurs just say what they feel like on that particular day to try and deflect the attention away from the real issues. Nobody actually believes any of it. The only thing they have ever followed up on was evicting stallholders and raising rents. This in turn destroyed what were once good businesses, drove disgruntled customers away forever and wrecked what could have been a nice little earner for the next decade or so. IDIOTS!
Yes it’s very interesting arithmetic, especially for people with an accountancy background. The Stallholders Association counted 43 people who had left after the announcement of the rent increases. Doug T quoted a number of people who had signed new agreements – they must be from a different 43???
The week I photographed and posted pictures of all the empty stalls in the markets Jamie stated in the paper there was only 1 vacant stall.
Initially there were about 150-200 stalls - when 43 left, Jamie said that was about the ‘average turnover’. (It’s over 50 now by the way- near 30%)
Apparently, Jamie hasn’t worked out that if you double the rent and halve the tenants it becomes even-steven. Meanwhile your customer base plummets and predictably the year ahead screams total collapse. He and FCC still won’t or can’t see that.
To suggest that the average sale of a business has been almost $60,000 is B.S. in the extreme, but even so, has anyone asked what those same businesses are now valued at? I can imagine that a business worth $100,000 might have sold for $60,000 but I would bet that the same business today would struggle to sell at $20,000. Has FCC even asked?
I could name 12 stores who have very recently left with a collective amount of $0. Someone must have sold their store for at least $700 000. Who was it?
I always liked the figures Jamie used in the Fremantle Markets Marketing Plan. The Plan, a requirement of the Head Lease Operating Strategy was to be approved through the Working Group six months after the lease was signed. The Working Group never checked these numbers because if they did they did they would never have been released.
The Stallholders Association thought they looked a "little rubbery" and did the simple maths on them. The Fremantle Council dismissed them as only marketing figures but it seemed a coincidence they were being touted at the same time the first wave of massive rent were being introduced.
How's your arithmetic and your gullibility...
FMPL, (after another comprehensive survey) revealed 40000 people go through Freo Markets every weekend. They spend $40 each... x 52 weeks... that's $83 million a year being spent inside the markets. 150 stalls at the markets...that's on "average" $550,000p.a. turnover for every stall, orjust over $10,000 a week. Tidy little earner for three days trade??????
You would not think there would be any problem selling a retail business with these figures for a couple hundred thousand. So where does Doug Thompson get his $59,000 for the "average" sale. Just doesn't add up... like most things associated with the lease deal.
Who got the figures wrong, who never bothered to check and then who dismissed them as irrelevant?
If you wanted to substantiate a sizeable rent increase, which relies upon numbers through the gate, then you can see how these figures may have been helpful.
They may even be seen as misleading if someone based their decision to buy a business at Freo Markets upon them.
The point is Council never checked them...so what else didbn't they scrutinise ????
Hi Sonya
I feel like posting a blog, but am not sure how secure it is, and how much people have to pay to get the anonymous information off a blog?
Would you post this comment for me:
“Well of course you probably won’t get an answer from the CEO, Fremantle City Council’s office. Not much of the Fremantle Market issue, - gets past the CEO’s office.
Looking in from outside, it would appear as if the CEO’s officer is protecting the Murdoch brothers.
Anyone would think that the CEO’s, Fremantle Market appointed officer is on the Murdoch brothers payroll - at least protection programme.”
Graeme McKenzie has appointed Glen Dougal as the man to handle all matters to do with the Fremantle Markets, and he gives the Murdoch’s his utmost support.”
Response from cr Doug Thompson
Thanks for your email Sonya - I appreciate your emotional involvement in this issue but reject your implication that I am not speaking "honestly and factually". The figures of business people who left the markets were provided by FMPL in response to questions from me so I could get some clarity on the cicumstances under which people left. I believe that information has been confirmed in a letter to Council officers. I did not request names of the businesses, only their reasons for leaving. I suggest you direct your question regarding names to FMPL.
If you have some "honest and factual information" that differs from that presented to me on this matter I would be happy to receive it
Dear Doug,
Thank you for your response. Your suggestion that my involvement is emotional smacks of sexism and I’m sure that if I were male (or even hermaphrodite) you would not have approached my questions with such a remark. So, let’s take a middle ground and call my involvement ‘ethical’.
You have never asserted a point of view on behalf of the stallholders and yet you have stood publically to quote these illogical figures. Your figures suggest that all ex-stallholders have happily chosen to skip away and most of them with a fist full of dollars. Apart from one mention of an eviction it would appear that everyone else either sold up or moved on. Is it even rational that 50 of 150-ish people would leave within a year or so when most of them have run successful businesses for 5-20 years?
How does it make sense to you that all of those people have stood in council meetings, written letters to council, attended rallies, contacted Adele Carles and the Minister for Local Govt and exposed them selves through the media if they were all happy campers?
I do acknowledge that a few people have sold businesses but let’s time-line it: most who sold at value bailed out just prior to the lease renewal and rent increase announcements. If you now spoke with the buyers of these shops you would find that the value at today’s date is as much as 50-75% less – that is if they can even find a buyer. Some of these people have already walked away with nothing after only a year or two.
Others, who panicked about predictable hardship ahead, sold way under value as soon as they heard the news. Many have opted for an agreement rather than a 5 year lease and trade nervously and optimistically believing they might trade out; highly unlikely when management is now giving away vacant stalls and unable to fill many.
If you genuinely want clarity on the circumstances about what’s going on then take the list of names below back to FMPL and get the actual facts. Then do the right thing and read that qualified information out as a public statement.
This should have been done long ago and I will be very interested to find out what you come up with. Maybe we are all emotional or having a bit of PMT or maybe we are much closer to the truth than you guys are.
Richard Murphy - Aromatica Soaps, Chris Jones - Mosaics, Alison Viera - Freo Hats, Steve Beard - Hammocks, Cuong - Leather Bags, Mary Cole - Antique Corner, Bob Williams - Fish Corner, Kylie Larsen - Artist, Penny Bannister - Antique Books, Nathan Baws - Naturopath, Bill Hopkins - Toys, Sue Smith - Asian Handicrafts, Mick Marlin - Art Prints/Framing, Sue - Bushtucker Foods, Peter & Lam - Farmers Lane Food, Herman Visser - Sunglasses, Wen - Fruit & Veg, Carol & Ralph - Paramor Crystals, Hulusi Atahan - Wildflowers in Resin, Mick - Candles, Anne Hughes - Rainbow Magic, Lorraine Ryan - Reiki, Annie - Artist/Silk Scarves, Wayne Bynder - Bootja Aboriginal, Ant & Julie - Photographer/Prints, Nellie - Ceramic Artist, Pat Mason - Woodturner,Patrick & Lynne - Wireworks, Lizzie - Cake of Soap, Colin and Marilyn Wright - Bonsai, Jerry Drenthe - Mr. Organic, Billy Ho - Fruit & Veg, Fan - Fruit & Veg, Scotty’s - Fruit & Veg, Gloria Stewart - High as a Kite, Richard Dixon - CrocodileMagnets, Gloria - Aladdins Kebab, Kerry & Lyn - The Bali Shop, Looch - Tricycle Clothing, Lee - Fruit & Veg, Maureen - The Box Shop, Mei Mei - Chinese Emporium, Subhi & Annupo - Floonies, Ken & Julia - Ken’s Art, Carol and Milton, Nick Sauders, Rez carpets, Jodi and Andrew from Jham, Martin – Slumped Glass, Lei Lin has her van taken off her, Audrey has vacated ½ her shop, even Sophie Moore – Anne Meyers daughter is on the move…
This list does not include any of the part-time employees of the above businesses or account for those up for sale at the moment.
Mr Murdoch claims that the turnover is about 7-9% which is normal. Do you think this is around 8%?
I think Adele Carles might be a bit busy for everyone to go into her office at the moment. The "big things" you predicted for her in an earlier blog, obviously.
What starts with F and ends with K - is not a 4 letter word but fails to perform because it's only a 'little thing'?
If Doug Thompson wants factual information I can show him the “notice of termination” (eviction) from my stall that I received, posted to my home address (while I was overseas!).
So that in itself is one example of his facts being incorrect, because that makes more than one termination (eviction). But its not called “eviction” anymore it's called ”termination” or “offered a new lease (for a totally inappropriate stall)”, which makes everything, as far as Council is concerned, OK.
The terms “eviction” and “termination” have been used haphazardly; but for me it meant one thing – I was out, evicted from my stall, shafted, kicked in the guts.
Council does not want to know that the 2 month lease, offered to me (without negotiation or discussion on a ‘take it or leave it’ basis) during Christmas trading months, for an unsuitable stall (which included the sweet aroma of well used toilets for free), was signed under duress. As I had invested heavily in Christmas stock I had no alternative but to stay and try to sell some of it. Because of the relocation at short notice, forced to a much smaller stall, and the disrespectful conduct towards me from FMPL, I left before the two months (“on trial”) were finished, trading at a loss at what is traditionally the two most profitable months of the year.
They don't want to acknowledge these honest facts.
So, if Doug Thompson has the facts on my reasons for leaving, I would be interested to know what they are.
50 small businesses gone from the Markets in 2 years. One third of the stallowners. What doesn't Doug get?
I think you (and the others) should all send your eviction notices or your “1 month to sign an agreement or get out notices” in to the curious councillor. However, you have stood before him and the other members and personally told them to their faces what your situation was so it seems unlikely that he would read or comprehend an email.
You and the others also had your photo and detailed stories in the Fremantle Herald and hundreds attended public rallies but he didn’t see or hear any of that. They even paid consultants to survey stallholders but didn’t follow any of the recommendations that came from that. But yeah, send him a note - but sign it Murdoch, if you want it acknowledged.
We counted the 43 people and we named the 43 people and we made it perfectly clear that those 43 people had LEFT THE BUILDING!
Cr Thompson somehow managed to calculate that most of the people who had LEFT had signed a lease or an agreement. How is that possible? On presenting the FACTS to his learned colleagues not one of them said, ‘Councillor, how is it possible for people to leave and yet stay at the same time?’ Pettitt is an academic but he didn’t wonder or question. So compelling was the statement that he (Thompson) went on to add “I believe that information has been confirmed in a letter to Council officers.” Well, it must be true.
Cr Thompson’s quote:
“The figures of business people who left the markets were provided by FMPL in response to questions from me so I could get some clarity on the cicumstances under which people left, “ appears to sum it all up and that is that. Clarity? Yes, clear as mud.
This probing sleuth didn’t query the obvious nor did he ask for names, dates or exact sales figures. Why wouldn’t he have asked for the names and itemised sales prices rather than accept an absurd estimate of 16 people sold for an average of $59,000? We would all love to have clarity on that.
Last week I posted for the second time, the names of the people who have now left the Fremantle markets since the lease renewal and rental increases. That is in the public arena and a copy was sent to the councillor and all members including the mayor and the CEO. To date, not one has enquired about figures from me or any stallholder….perhaps they are waiting on Mr Murdoch’s clarification. It would be a good time for stallholders to send in their own version of events and we can post all of them up so at least the good ratepayers can make their own minds up on the efficiency and effectiveness of their elected servants.
Everything that the Murdoch’s have presented has been accepted as fact. Everything presented by the stallholders has been blown off, dodged, placated, and sidestepped – nothing has been done to protect or prevent any of it because “COUNCIL DOES NOT WANT TO KNOW BECAUSE COUNCIL CREATED THIS MESS”. Worst of all it now appears to be a personal attack which is really a childish and very transparent as they try to blame stallholders or cover their shame with quips like:
What did you expect - Pettitt
They made their bed – Fittock
They are yesterday’s men – Murdoch
Trouble making ex stallholders – Ms M
All in all, it is what they don’t say that says it best.
council don't want to know, because the more the murdochs make the more the council recieves. but the jokes on them because the markets managers are losing money.
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